<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: They&#8217;re not User Stories</title>
	<atom:link href="http://lizkeogh.com/2010/02/02/theyre-not-user-stories/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2010/02/02/theyre-not-user-stories/</link>
	<description>Software, Training, Coaching, Writing</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 20:36:48 -0400</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Technical/Infrastructure User Stories &#171; Cultivating Software</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2010/02/02/theyre-not-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-23803</link>
		<dc:creator>Technical/Infrastructure User Stories &#171; Cultivating Software</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2012 01:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=553#comment-23803</guid>
		<description>[...] Keogh provides an excellent road map in her article titled They&#8217;re not User Stories, where she introduces a much more fitting title of &#8220;stakeholder stories&#8221;. Their value [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Keogh provides an excellent road map in her article titled They&#8217;re not User Stories, where she introduces a much more fitting title of &#8220;stakeholder stories&#8221;. Their value [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alberto Brandolini</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2010/02/02/theyre-not-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-22240</link>
		<dc:creator>Alberto Brandolini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=553#comment-22240</guid>
		<description>Hi Liz, I agree: the classical User Story format might end up being too simplistic, and point towards fake goals. A similar approach that I&#039;ve used in the past was in &quot;Writing Effective Use Cases&quot; from Alistar Cockburn. Differently from the standard Use Case Form templates (which in general are ...er... terrible) he focused on Goals, not necessarily including only the primary actor.

This might lead to scenarios where there are multiple goals, even conflicting sometimes, but where the team is facing a real problem (how can we increase the buzz without being perceived as a nuisance) that could lead to creative solutions.

Another interesting outcome is that digging into the real complexity and the real goals might lead to interesting twists at the business goal level. For example a story like: &quot;As a traveller, I want to buy a train ticket, So that I can take a train&quot; started to look somewhat fake, the real one was more like &quot;As a traveller, I want to take a train, So that I can go home&quot; while the ticket looked more like a necessary step for the railway company in order to get paid. Buying the ticket on the train wasn&#039;t a visible option in the first case, while it stood out in the second one.

Not all user stories deserve this &quot;multiple point of views&quot; approach, but it&#039;s definitely worthwhile knowing it! 
Thanks.

Cheers

Alberto</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Liz, I agree: the classical User Story format might end up being too simplistic, and point towards fake goals. A similar approach that I&#8217;ve used in the past was in &#8220;Writing Effective Use Cases&#8221; from Alistar Cockburn. Differently from the standard Use Case Form templates (which in general are &#8230;er&#8230; terrible) he focused on Goals, not necessarily including only the primary actor.</p>
<p>This might lead to scenarios where there are multiple goals, even conflicting sometimes, but where the team is facing a real problem (how can we increase the buzz without being perceived as a nuisance) that could lead to creative solutions.</p>
<p>Another interesting outcome is that digging into the real complexity and the real goals might lead to interesting twists at the business goal level. For example a story like: &#8220;As a traveller, I want to buy a train ticket, So that I can take a train&#8221; started to look somewhat fake, the real one was more like &#8220;As a traveller, I want to take a train, So that I can go home&#8221; while the ticket looked more like a necessary step for the railway company in order to get paid. Buying the ticket on the train wasn&#8217;t a visible option in the first case, while it stood out in the second one.</p>
<p>Not all user stories deserve this &#8220;multiple point of views&#8221; approach, but it&#8217;s definitely worthwhile knowing it!<br />
Thanks.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>Alberto</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: William Gill</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2010/02/02/theyre-not-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-15236</link>
		<dc:creator>William Gill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 05:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=553#comment-15236</guid>
		<description>Hi Liz,
I also left a comment at the end of my other post which helps clarify - but I wanted to leave a thought on your comment above.

I totally, 100% agree that quick feedback is important, and delivering the smallest amount of user value quickly is important. However, &#039;usability&#039;, like quality in general, is not a gloss that you paint on to a solution when you&#039;ve finished - usability, and quality, must be built in to the design from day one. This is true, I think, even when you deliver only a small portion of functionality. It&#039;s a bit like bugs in software: what is more efficient? Painting on quality at the end by throwing hundreds of testers at code that is fundamentally poor? Or building quality into the cycle early? It&#039;s the same with usability. 

Also, &#039;usability&#039; doesn&#039;t always mean beautiful, animated, graphics, colours etc... it means clean, smooth user flows, optimised for the major use case and designed with the user in mind. (In fact, quite often beautiful, animated and graphics gets in the way of smooth, clean flows). The &quot;with the user in mind&quot; part is where the &quot;As a User...&quot; user story comes from...

cheers
will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Liz,<br />
I also left a comment at the end of my other post which helps clarify &#8211; but I wanted to leave a thought on your comment above.</p>
<p>I totally, 100% agree that quick feedback is important, and delivering the smallest amount of user value quickly is important. However, &#8216;usability&#8217;, like quality in general, is not a gloss that you paint on to a solution when you&#8217;ve finished &#8211; usability, and quality, must be built in to the design from day one. This is true, I think, even when you deliver only a small portion of functionality. It&#8217;s a bit like bugs in software: what is more efficient? Painting on quality at the end by throwing hundreds of testers at code that is fundamentally poor? Or building quality into the cycle early? It&#8217;s the same with usability. </p>
<p>Also, &#8216;usability&#8217; doesn&#8217;t always mean beautiful, animated, graphics, colours etc&#8230; it means clean, smooth user flows, optimised for the major use case and designed with the user in mind. (In fact, quite often beautiful, animated and graphics gets in the way of smooth, clean flows). The &#8220;with the user in mind&#8221; part is where the &#8220;As a User&#8230;&#8221; user story comes from&#8230;</p>
<p>cheers<br />
will.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: liz</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2010/02/02/theyre-not-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-15232</link>
		<dc:creator>liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=553#comment-15232</guid>
		<description>Hi Will, I commented at the end of your post, but will write a bit more here.

For me, the user should ideally get the simplest possible thing that will allow the business to get value. That might be something spoinky and beautiful, or it might be cheap and ugly. Maybe it only *starts off* cheap and ugly. Doing more than is useful is as wasteful as doing too little. The only way to know is to get feedback - and often usability isn&#039;t the most useful thing to get feedback *on*.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Will, I commented at the end of your post, but will write a bit more here.</p>
<p>For me, the user should ideally get the simplest possible thing that will allow the business to get value. That might be something spoinky and beautiful, or it might be cheap and ugly. Maybe it only *starts off* cheap and ugly. Doing more than is useful is as wasteful as doing too little. The only way to know is to get feedback &#8211; and often usability isn&#8217;t the most useful thing to get feedback *on*.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: William Gill</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2010/02/02/theyre-not-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-15224</link>
		<dc:creator>William Gill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2011 11:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=553#comment-15224</guid>
		<description>Hi Liz, I was forwarded your post after I posted an article describing exactly the opposite of what you&#039;ve proposed here. :) 

While I accept that there are often cases where you need to build something that the user might not necessarily want or like, like a captcha in a registration process, I would argue that for everything you add and every line of code you write, you understand how that will impact the user. If there is not a positive impact, then why are you doing it? Sure, Fred the marketing guy wants to hype the game release by sending an email, but why did the user give his permission to receive it? If the email is full of Fred&#039;s marketing wishes but gives the user no value, did Fred really get what he wants? Fred gets what he wants when the user gets what they want. If the user gets value, then Fred wins. So focus on what the user wants out of the email. Yes, Fred&#039;s requirements are important - but he only gets what he wants when the user gets value. Understanding what that value is should be at the heart of user story creation.

Here&#039;s the link to my article that I mentioned:
http://blog.williamgill.de/2011/08/25/scrum-user-stories-as-a-user-not-as-a-manager

Cheers,
Will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Liz, I was forwarded your post after I posted an article describing exactly the opposite of what you&#8217;ve proposed here. <img src='http://lizkeogh.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>While I accept that there are often cases where you need to build something that the user might not necessarily want or like, like a captcha in a registration process, I would argue that for everything you add and every line of code you write, you understand how that will impact the user. If there is not a positive impact, then why are you doing it? Sure, Fred the marketing guy wants to hype the game release by sending an email, but why did the user give his permission to receive it? If the email is full of Fred&#8217;s marketing wishes but gives the user no value, did Fred really get what he wants? Fred gets what he wants when the user gets what they want. If the user gets value, then Fred wins. So focus on what the user wants out of the email. Yes, Fred&#8217;s requirements are important &#8211; but he only gets what he wants when the user gets value. Understanding what that value is should be at the heart of user story creation.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the link to my article that I mentioned:<br />
<a href="http://blog.williamgill.de/2011/08/25/scrum-user-stories-as-a-user-not-as-a-manager" rel="nofollow">http://blog.williamgill.de/2011/08/25/scrum-user-stories-as-a-user-not-as-a-manager</a></p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Will.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sleepyfox</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2010/02/02/theyre-not-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-14013</link>
		<dc:creator>sleepyfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jun 2011 16:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=553#comment-14013</guid>
		<description>The &#039;misuse of metrics&#039; anti-pattern is an old one, I&#039;ve been ranting about it for years (see my blog post from 2008 http://foxonsoftware.blogspot.com/2008/05/demon-ex-machina.html or my 2009 slides I posted on slideshare here: http://www.slideshare.net/sleepyfox/software-metrics-8411184 )

I have found it illuminating to use FiveWhys to get to the root cause of who benefits from certain metrics or behaviours that come up in story definition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8216;misuse of metrics&#8217; anti-pattern is an old one, I&#8217;ve been ranting about it for years (see my blog post from 2008 <a href="http://foxonsoftware.blogspot.com/2008/05/demon-ex-machina.html" rel="nofollow">http://foxonsoftware.blogspot.com/2008/05/demon-ex-machina.html</a> or my 2009 slides I posted on slideshare here: <a href="http://www.slideshare.net/sleepyfox/software-metrics-8411184" rel="nofollow">http://www.slideshare.net/sleepyfox/software-metrics-8411184</a> )</p>
<p>I have found it illuminating to use FiveWhys to get to the root cause of who benefits from certain metrics or behaviours that come up in story definition.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Story Smells: The Valueless Story &#124; Joseph Wilk</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2010/02/02/theyre-not-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-11116</link>
		<dc:creator>Story Smells: The Valueless Story &#124; Joseph Wilk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=553#comment-11116</guid>
		<description>[...] Try and structure narratives using the Feature injection format: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Try and structure narratives using the Feature injection format: [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: From Journeyman to Client &#124; upstream agile - software</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2010/02/02/theyre-not-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-7141</link>
		<dc:creator>From Journeyman to Client &#124; upstream agile - software</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=553#comment-7141</guid>
		<description>[...] ideas to the test. Remember that the only valid business value here is to make money. And that the only role that is important here is you as the stakeholder of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ideas to the test. Remember that the only valid business value here is to make money. And that the only role that is important here is you as the stakeholder of the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: J. B. Rainsberger</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2010/02/02/theyre-not-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-7087</link>
		<dc:creator>J. B. Rainsberger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=553#comment-7087</guid>
		<description>This reminds me one of the chapters in The Power of Full Engagement: &quot;What&#039;s the Good /Business/ Reason To Do This?&quot; I ask that question in most storywriting sessions at least once.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me one of the chapters in The Power of Full Engagement: &#8220;What&#8217;s the Good /Business/ Reason To Do This?&#8221; I ask that question in most storywriting sessions at least once.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Interesting posts 2010-02-06 &#171; The Art of Software Development</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2010/02/02/theyre-not-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-7067</link>
		<dc:creator>Interesting posts 2010-02-06 &#171; The Art of Software Development</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=553#comment-7067</guid>
		<description>[...] They’re not User Stories, they&#8217;re Stakeholder Stories [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] They’re not User Stories, they&#8217;re Stakeholder Stories [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

