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	<title>Comments for Liz Keogh&#039;s blog</title>
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	<link>http://lizkeogh.com</link>
	<description>Software, Training, Coaching, Writing</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:59:05 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on The Real Cost of Change by liz</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2012/01/30/the-real-cost-of-change/comment-page-1/#comment-20788</link>
		<dc:creator>liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=760#comment-20788</guid>
		<description>John, please notice that I tagged the graph &quot;a really nasty Waterfall project&quot;. It&#039;s deliberately a straw man, and I believe I&#039;ve called it out as such fairly - I&#039;m very familiar with Royce&#039;s article. I also see Waterfall as one extreme in a range of different frequencies of iteration, rather than a process or methodology, and use the word as a short-hand for that concept here. If you don&#039;t think that Waterfall is the most extreme form of getting-it-right-up-front, please let me know what you call the thing that is.

My interest in this article isn&#039;t really in denigrating Waterfall. It&#039;s in the reinforcing feedback loop and the human tendencies that lead to its generation. If badly-done Waterfall is the straw man, then badly-applied Agile is the true enemy. While there isn&#039;t any &quot;rule&quot;, there are certainly those tendencies in us, and without recognising them we end up overapplying certain Agile practices - particularly those that focus on knowing outcomes up-front. The audience of my blog is mostly made up of Agile newcomers and practitioners, and I hope that my focus is useful when it&#039;s read in this context.

No twitter comment, blog post, or book has ever been a silver bullet, and my posts won&#039;t be either!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, please notice that I tagged the graph &#8220;a really nasty Waterfall project&#8221;. It&#8217;s deliberately a straw man, and I believe I&#8217;ve called it out as such fairly &#8211; I&#8217;m very familiar with Royce&#8217;s article. I also see Waterfall as one extreme in a range of different frequencies of iteration, rather than a process or methodology, and use the word as a short-hand for that concept here. If you don&#8217;t think that Waterfall is the most extreme form of getting-it-right-up-front, please let me know what you call the thing that is.</p>
<p>My interest in this article isn&#8217;t really in denigrating Waterfall. It&#8217;s in the reinforcing feedback loop and the human tendencies that lead to its generation. If badly-done Waterfall is the straw man, then badly-applied Agile is the true enemy. While there isn&#8217;t any &#8220;rule&#8221;, there are certainly those tendencies in us, and without recognising them we end up overapplying certain Agile practices &#8211; particularly those that focus on knowing outcomes up-front. The audience of my blog is mostly made up of Agile newcomers and practitioners, and I hope that my focus is useful when it&#8217;s read in this context.</p>
<p>No twitter comment, blog post, or book has ever been a silver bullet, and my posts won&#8217;t be either!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Real Cost of Change by John</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2012/01/30/the-real-cost-of-change/comment-page-1/#comment-20784</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=760#comment-20784</guid>
		<description>Great post.

But:

It&#039;s a bit annoying that everyone deliberately ignore the fact that Winston W. Royce, in his paper about what&#039;s now called Waterfall, clearly advocated an iterative approach.

&quot;Feedback could (should, and often would) lead from code testing to design (as testing of code uncovered flaws in the design) and from design back to requirements specification (as design problems may necessitate the removal of conflicting or otherwise unsatisfiable / undesignable requirements). &quot;

Please, read again Royce&#039;s paper, and stop blaming at waterfall.

&quot;There is no explicit methodology called “waterfall” and there never has been.

It is nothing more than a straw-man used to criticize well established and proven analysis, design, and development practices.

No “rules” are being broken by going back and changing requirements models or artefacts when something is discovered during later phases for example. Neither is there any “rule” which says you must design everything in minute detail before starting to code, or that you can’t use OOAD, UI prototypes, feature backlogs (prioritized lists), or that developers can’t have direct end-user contact when using a “waterfall” process&quot;
http://www.infoq.com/articles/agile-hybridization</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.</p>
<p>But:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a bit annoying that everyone deliberately ignore the fact that Winston W. Royce, in his paper about what&#8217;s now called Waterfall, clearly advocated an iterative approach.</p>
<p>&#8220;Feedback could (should, and often would) lead from code testing to design (as testing of code uncovered flaws in the design) and from design back to requirements specification (as design problems may necessitate the removal of conflicting or otherwise unsatisfiable / undesignable requirements). &#8221;</p>
<p>Please, read again Royce&#8217;s paper, and stop blaming at waterfall.</p>
<p>&#8220;There is no explicit methodology called “waterfall” and there never has been.</p>
<p>It is nothing more than a straw-man used to criticize well established and proven analysis, design, and development practices.</p>
<p>No “rules” are being broken by going back and changing requirements models or artefacts when something is discovered during later phases for example. Neither is there any “rule” which says you must design everything in minute detail before starting to code, or that you can’t use OOAD, UI prototypes, feature backlogs (prioritized lists), or that developers can’t have direct end-user contact when using a “waterfall” process&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.infoq.com/articles/agile-hybridization" rel="nofollow">http://www.infoq.com/articles/agile-hybridization</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on The Real Cost of Change by Bob Marshall</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2012/01/30/the-real-cost-of-change/comment-page-1/#comment-20740</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=760#comment-20740</guid>
		<description>@SteveF

I think you may have misunderstood the essential nature of SBCE (Set-Based Concurrent Engineering),at least as Toyota practices it. According to Kennedy, Ward, Toyota (TPDS) does not waste it&#039;s investment in solutions not chosen (for the current model) but rather retains all the learning up to the point where a solution is &quot;dropped&quot; - for later use in future model developments. And three is just some notional number, concurrent options can range from several to twelve or more, as I understand it. 

HTH

- Bob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@SteveF</p>
<p>I think you may have misunderstood the essential nature of SBCE (Set-Based Concurrent Engineering),at least as Toyota practices it. According to Kennedy, Ward, Toyota (TPDS) does not waste it&#8217;s investment in solutions not chosen (for the current model) but rather retains all the learning up to the point where a solution is &#8220;dropped&#8221; &#8211; for later use in future model developments. And three is just some notional number, concurrent options can range from several to twelve or more, as I understand it. </p>
<p>HTH</p>
<p>- Bob</p>
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		<title>Comment on Scrum vs. Kanban: FIGHT! by تاپ لینک هایی در مورد برنامه نویسی</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2009/09/16/scrum-vs-kanban-fight/comment-page-1/#comment-20709</link>
		<dc:creator>تاپ لینک هایی در مورد برنامه نویسی</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 06:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=432#comment-20709</guid>
		<description>[...] یک CMS بررسی نماییدساخت یک Sitemap که قابل Drag کردن است با jQueryجنگ Scrum با Kanbanابزارهایی برای برآورد و تخمین قیمت سایت های طراحی [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] یک CMS بررسی نماییدساخت یک Sitemap که قابل Drag کردن است با jQueryجنگ Scrum با Kanbanابزارهایی برای برآورد و تخمین قیمت سایت های طراحی [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Real Cost of Change by liz</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2012/01/30/the-real-cost-of-change/comment-page-1/#comment-20696</link>
		<dc:creator>liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 20:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=760#comment-20696</guid>
		<description>Whoops, sorry Steve! Have changed the post to give proper attribution. Thanks for that. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops, sorry Steve! Have changed the post to give proper attribution. Thanks for that. <img src='http://lizkeogh.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on The Real Cost of Change by Steve Freeman</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2012/01/30/the-real-cost-of-change/comment-page-1/#comment-20658</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 15:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=760#comment-20658</guid>
		<description>NIce article. It&#039;s worth remembering that the Toyota Product Development process is incredibly wasteful, three solutions for each one chosen, because that&#039;s the cost they&#039;re prepared to pay to guarantee predictability.

Oh, and I think you&#039;ll find the Chocolate Santas is my reference, I think I got the story from John Nolan :)

http://www.higherorderlogic.com/2010/07/bad-code-isnt-technical-debt-its-an-unhedged-call-option/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NIce article. It&#8217;s worth remembering that the Toyota Product Development process is incredibly wasteful, three solutions for each one chosen, because that&#8217;s the cost they&#8217;re prepared to pay to guarantee predictability.</p>
<p>Oh, and I think you&#8217;ll find the Chocolate Santas is my reference, I think I got the story from John Nolan <img src='http://lizkeogh.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.higherorderlogic.com/2010/07/bad-code-isnt-technical-debt-its-an-unhedged-call-option/" rel="nofollow">http://www.higherorderlogic.com/2010/07/bad-code-isnt-technical-debt-its-an-unhedged-call-option/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on The Real Cost of Change by liz</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2012/01/30/the-real-cost-of-change/comment-page-1/#comment-20596</link>
		<dc:creator>liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 16:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=760#comment-20596</guid>
		<description>The purple kitten is wise :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The purple kitten is wise <img src='http://lizkeogh.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on The Real Cost of Change by Chris Matts</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2012/01/30/the-real-cost-of-change/comment-page-1/#comment-20595</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Matts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 15:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=760#comment-20595</guid>
		<description>Hi Liz

Long time, no see. ;-)

Lovely article, I particularly like the sound of those chocolate santas.

You really get to the heart of why I think Agile works for me. At heart we are all theory builders and poets. Whenever asked, how is it going, we used to have the tendency to create a little poem like &quot;Analysis is 50% complete, or development is 99% complete... I&#039;ve just....&quot;

Agile gets us to bring reality back to our lives. To compare what is real in the world with those little theories and poems we have built in our minds. &quot;50% complete&quot; is replaced by I have tested two of my five hypotheses. 

Agile is about knowing things with certainty, and nothing more than that.

As the purple kitten said

&quot;When I&#039;ve not started, I am 100% certain I am not doing it.
When I&#039;m doing it, I&#039;m 100% certain I am doing it.
And when I&#039;m finished, I&#039;m 100% certain I am done.
....for now.
When I say anything less or more than 100% I know that I&#039;m dreaming up poetry for the entertainment of the professor.... 
And as I&#039;m dreaming, I really have no idea where I really am and I could end up anywhere&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Liz</p>
<p>Long time, no see. <img src='http://lizkeogh.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Lovely article, I particularly like the sound of those chocolate santas.</p>
<p>You really get to the heart of why I think Agile works for me. At heart we are all theory builders and poets. Whenever asked, how is it going, we used to have the tendency to create a little poem like &#8220;Analysis is 50% complete, or development is 99% complete&#8230; I&#8217;ve just&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Agile gets us to bring reality back to our lives. To compare what is real in the world with those little theories and poems we have built in our minds. &#8220;50% complete&#8221; is replaced by I have tested two of my five hypotheses. </p>
<p>Agile is about knowing things with certainty, and nothing more than that.</p>
<p>As the purple kitten said</p>
<p>&#8220;When I&#8217;ve not started, I am 100% certain I am not doing it.<br />
When I&#8217;m doing it, I&#8217;m 100% certain I am doing it.<br />
And when I&#8217;m finished, I&#8217;m 100% certain I am done.<br />
&#8230;.for now.<br />
When I say anything less or more than 100% I know that I&#8217;m dreaming up poetry for the entertainment of the professor&#8230;.<br />
And as I&#8217;m dreaming, I really have no idea where I really am and I could end up anywhere&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Real Cost of Change by Stephen Younge</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2012/01/30/the-real-cost-of-change/comment-page-1/#comment-20560</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Younge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 18:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=760#comment-20560</guid>
		<description>This is an excellent and comprehensive article. Thank you for writing it. I really like that you call out that Waterfall can create a bad feedback loop -- excessive up front planning increases the cost of change, which in turn increases excessive up front planning, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an excellent and comprehensive article. Thank you for writing it. I really like that you call out that Waterfall can create a bad feedback loop &#8212; excessive up front planning increases the cost of change, which in turn increases excessive up front planning, etc.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Real Cost of Change by PM Hut</title>
		<link>http://lizkeogh.com/2012/01/30/the-real-cost-of-change/comment-page-1/#comment-20555</link>
		<dc:creator>PM Hut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 13:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lizkeogh.com/?p=760#comment-20555</guid>
		<description>Hi Liz,

That&#039;s an excellent post on change management. I would love to republish it on PM Hut (under the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pmhut.com/category/change-management&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;change management category&lt;/a&gt;) where many project managers will be able to benefit from it.

Please either email me or contact me through the &quot;contact us&quot; form on the PM Hut website in case your&#039;re OK with this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Liz,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s an excellent post on change management. I would love to republish it on PM Hut (under the <a href="http://www.pmhut.com/category/change-management" rel="nofollow">change management category</a>) where many project managers will be able to benefit from it.</p>
<p>Please either email me or contact me through the &#8220;contact us&#8221; form on the PM Hut website in case your&#8217;re OK with this.</p>
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